[Music]
I
[Music]
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri for
three long years Christians in the Holy
Land of Syria where many of Jesus's
followers still speak his ancient
language Aramaic have been terrorized
beheaded burnt out and had their
churches monasteries and convents
destroyed by the Western back Al-Qaeda
revolutionaries the alsoo Christian
Barack Obama and David Cameron
government s have eagerly facilitated
all of it though largely using the money
of Saudi Arabia and Qatar those
well-known friends of Liberty the
Christian Church however has begun a
peaceful fight back kidnapped nuns have
been freed by strenuous diplomatic
efforts and the new pope has prayed
openly for an end to the Carnage and
sectarianism and now currently a
high-profile group of Christians have
just returned from a pilgrimage to Syria
where once Jesus walked we're glad to
welcome welome two of the pilgrims and
at Easter time on board the Sputnik now
father Dave Smith you first because it
is Easter uh tell us uh about this
pilgrimage who was on it what did they
do how were they received how did you
find things look it was beautiful I mean
this my second trip this area in the
last two years and I think there were
about 40 of us this time uh as last time
we were received with enormous
generosity and Hospitality I mean the
Syrian people are beautiful people did
you fly directly into Damascus we came
VI tan this time and that was fantastic
as well again we had an Iranian team
with us a number of Iranian shecks and
uh people from non-government
organizations I mean Iran obviously is
been very supportive of the Syrian
government uh but they weren't political
people at all they were activists most
of whom had cut their teeth on support
for Palestine and uh who were concerned
now about Syria and wanting to lend
their energies to efforts for
reconciliation work there and the
Damascus Airport still open you flew
into that y yep Y no how was the
security situation first of
all broadly speaking I it was there was
an I felt an enormous sense of relief
compared to the year before where was we
were in Damascus and it felt like you
were under siege you know and you'd go
to bed at night and see the red glow of
Mor fire all around you you know on the
horizon this year gosh we drove from
Damascus to lakia the homs you couldn't
have done that a year ago you didn't see
any War you didn't hear any War we did
okay look to be the truthful we had
water shs land within 30 m of our hotel
there were two people killed on our
doorstep for instance so more possibly
uh and we were close to where there was
violence happening still it's terrible
but my feeling was certainly this war is
basically won and I think the Syrian
people have have have won no the Syrian
Society is of course uh actually the
best in the whole of the middle e least
in so far as
multiculturalism multifaith
Society is concerned Syria was like an
oasis for Christians especially you know
across the Levant really in terms of
freedom of worship so you know this idea
of the sort of terrible divisions in
Syrian societies I think is a myth well
certainly a myth so far as uh the Muslim
Christian relations are concerned
internal Muslim relations are a little
more complicated rather more complicated
than that let's talk about the
Christians uh first of all is they've
been under siege now for 3 years by this
Al-Qaeda phenomenon how was the morale
of the Christian Community in Syria as I
said my experiences people are feeling
that the Syrian people have won this and
um certainly I mean let's let's be
honest it's not that the Sy Christians I
think are all pro Assad but I think
they're very anti the takiri who were
trying trying to destroy uh their not
just their them but their way of life
and everything that goes with us with it
um I felt yeah the Christians felt I
think that uh the distress was coming to
an end John Shipton uh let me uh welcome
you uh also to the Sputnik we all met in
Australia seems like a long time time
ago now you are of course the father of
Julian Assange our friend uh still under
his own kind of Siege in the Ecuador uh
Embassy um you were uh also on the
pilgrimage you share father Dave's
perspective on that uh very much so the
the um all the roads are open now when
driving through along the roads you can
see all of the buildings that Overlook
the roads are partially destroyed as uh
as uh the
the Invaders attempted to isolate City
from City and reduce the reduce the uh
the community fabric of Syria to zero
and they their savagery is uh well
unmatched um for example we were in homs
and there's a shopping street with a
quite narrow so that if you put a a car
bomb in the shopping street it uh uh
affects the shops and so Barbers will be
blown up and mothers and children
shopping for onions and potatoes will be
destroyed secondly they put put another
Carbone nearby so when everybody in
horror of this death and destruction of
children and women shopping runs out to
assist the second car bomb goes out and
these are contained explosions which
destroy every living thing these Western
leaders are wearing their Christian
hearts on their sleeves and yet at the
same time facilitating this very Carnage
of which you describe so powerfully well
the technicians of Empire completely
without moral and they just uh Pride
themselves in the in the phrase to do
what's necessary um and what's necessary
for them is to have no Rivals and uh
having no Rivals means that they just
destroy the fabric of communities that
are attempting to trade with each other
speak with with each other attend each
other's universities so they'll do
everything anything whatever to destroy
that that fabric uh we attempt to in our
pilgrimage to remake you um You Came you
travel all the way from Australia um
with with a delegation uh to Syria how
is the how is this war in Syria being
perceived there down under I think we're
doing a little better than our American
sisters and brothers and it was great to
be able to say no I'm not an American
you know well with some tension
sometimes you know what I mean what are
you doing here yeah you know but I think
people pick at the same time we're here
because we're not representing that
Mainline view uh which because why are
you wanting to destroy us it's what
people are feeling and it's a good
question I mean Ordinary People why why
do we want to kill them okay there's a
bigger game being played they don't know
anything about that it's not their
problem John very powerfully there most
uh powerfully uh father Dave made the
the point about the hypocrisy of all
this uh it's kind of gigantic this point
that uh that we ready to pay and arm and
drum up media support
for people that we would be terrified to
have roaming around our own streets the
how the media game is played is is
almost mindboggling I mean one of my
last days there we had the privilege of
being invited by the president of the
Olympic Committee of Syria watching a
disabled volleyball game taking place
and gosh it was fantastic to see the
commitment the frankly the government
has to this disabled athletes but then
we lunched with a wonderful group of
their soccer players one of whom their
star players had been killed when a
Morell landed in the middle of a soccer
match in the field and killed one of the
players and injured others and I mean
for God's sake who's going to say that's
somebody trying to fight for democracy
and freedom I mean there's just no way
of interpreting these sorts of actions
of barbarity I mean that's just a
trivial instance in some ways but we we
drove past Adra as well you know and I
thinking only last Christmas the
you know the people they had seen the
heads of children hanging on the trees
in a mockery of a sort of Christmas tree
celebration you know and these sorts of
things that go on it's almost just
beyond belief and the think these people
are supposedly Robin Hood and his marry
man trying to Top Evil prince it's just
such a um demonic well I did say to
William heg Mr heg you've been wrong all
your life but you've never been insane
before this policy has to be on The Edge
of Insanity doesn't
it God knows what's going on really but
I mean yeah soake of humanity you bring
back uh Tidings at least uh of some
Prospect of resurrection of Syrian
Society the spirit of the syrians is
very strong I mean everywhere we went we
found syrians they love their country
you know but for the most part they love
their army and they love their president
and that's I mean let's be honest if
there's an election now the current
president will well I I read some
analysis from anti-assad people today
conceding for the first time that I had
seen that actually whether president
Assad rigs the election or not he'd win
it uh and uh that's a paradox in itself
we're told this is all being done
because the syrians hate their president
but even his enemies now acknowledge
that in a free and fair election he'd
win it and I don't think it's
necessarily because they all love him
but they all hate the alternative for
the most understandable of reasons
because it threatens the destroy not all
minority groups but the entire Syrian
way of life and uh culture hold on to
nurse for the fear of something worse I
mean that's uh that's the attitude of uh
of many yeah AB absolutely in fact the
only possibility now of the political
reform that Syria needs and the
transition to democracy that it needs is
if this uh insur ction by these foreign
Invaders is defeated we saw great signs
of Hope there too I must say numbers we
met with um some of the FSA fighters who
are coming back you know I'm not saying
they're switching sides what they're
doing is they're signing papers saying
we're no longer going to fight and we
met we saw Shak tahan there who was
instrumental in uh playing that
mediatorial role helping people to come
back and to give up their arms their
dear father France who was uh killed
recently
in Leo was also involved in that
mediator work probably why he was killed
well that was why he was killed and I
think it's a last desperate attempt
because I think what we'll see is the
syrians joining hands again and pushing
out the foreign Invaders and I think
that's I feel that maybe on the doorstep
could Happ start to happen any day
perhaps starting in homs and that's the
Hope where the violence started that's
where the peace will start father Dave
John thanks for joining us on the
Sputnik coming up after the break is one
of Russia today's top analyst s on the
fighting in Ukraine and he's a bit of a
fighter himself John White after
this welcome back to Sputnik following
the violent overthrow of an elected
government Ukraine is no longer a
functioning state it has a new
government in Kev stuffed right-wing
Nationalist and even fascists which was
elected by no one in fact many were
essentially appointed by the US state
departments Victoria nand who had
previously boasted of spending 5 billion
on Democracy promotion in Ukraine the
cool leaders aren't so tough outside of
their Western funded $5 billion Square
in KF however and have lost control of
substantial parts of the country which
simply rejects their Revolution they
seem to think that Slaughter will
stabilize the country placing them if it
happens on a collision course with
Russia John White who analyzes these and
other matters for RT joins us now join
thanks for coming on board the Sputnik
are we headed for war over the Ukraine
well it certainly looks closer than it's
ever been George um it's good that we've
now though entered a diplomatic process
where in the four powers are sitting
down to talk the four powers being the
US the Russian governments the EU and
the interim government in Ukraine but
when we see interim government we need
to unpack what we really mean is gatri
said at the top of this item this was a
government that came to power on the
back of a violent coup where in
protesters started killing police
officers burning buildings and they were
described as pro-democracy activists
when people do that in eastern Ukraine
in resistance to this undemocratic
regime in Kiev they're being denounced
as terrorists and armed militants so
really what we're seeing is the
hypocrisy of the West and to be lectured
to by the West on the evils of
interfering in other countries Affairs
is really to like being told to sit up
straight by The Hunchback of Notre Dam
so it's good that there is a diplomatic
process but the Russian government so
far has been very very restrained I
would say their inter intervention in
Crimea to restore the Democratic rights
of 2.5 million people which were
violated by the events in Kiev has
forestalled up to now a civil conflict
which would have been inevitable if this
interim regime in Kiev had been allowed
to bed in and to try and start trying to
enforce it R to the east of the country
it would inevitably have been civil
conflict thus far that's been averted
let's hope this diplomatic process can
avert the possibility going forward well
the people in the South and the east of
Ukraine Russian speaking people who
constitute 47% of the entire population
of
Ukraine they have no obligation
whatsoever to recognize the governmental
RIT of a group of people who came to
power through fire and uh and sharp
steel uh far away in Kev it has
absolutely no legitimacy no basis on
international law and no basis on any
Democratic Norm we know so but if you
listen to the British media you would
think this event started with Russia's
intervention in Crimea they've
completely abstracted the role of avowed
fascist and neo-nazis in this process
and let's let's be clear we're not
talking about a few Nut Cases running
around working towns in England and so
on in the ADL we're talking about a part
of the world where fascism has deep
historical and cultural roots and the
blood of Millions on its absolutely so
as you say the citizens of eastern
Ukraine and Crimea do have no obligation
to obey the r of this government in Kiev
so the country is certainly polarized
but I would suggest that the people of
Western Crimea the scales must be
starting to fall from their eyes with
regard to the role of the West they were
promised this new Utopia of prosperity
if they would move into a western orbit
and what they've received now is nothing
they've received nothing but chaos
they've rece receive nothing but the
prospect of civil conflict and it really
does expose the West this the West no
money but no money yes so people like
John McCain who went over to Kiev and
Catherine Ashton John McCain who by the
way belongs to the Yea School of US
foreign policy where in the world has
reduced to the Simplicity of a John we
movie they have nothing to offer the
Ukrainian people this was part of their
wider geopolitical struggle against the
government of the Russian Federation and
the Russian Federation has drawn the
line after years wherein the velvet
glove of soft power can seal the Iron
Fist of hard power the Russian
government isn't having it anymore and
quite rightly too and it's much better
for the world that that is the case
unipolarity is crumbling as we speak and
multipolarity must take its place in
order for the world to go forward where
in Universal human rights and
international law and sovereignty means
something throughout Europe uh people
are protesting uh against austerity you
they're marching throughout the streets
everywhere each country and meanwhile
they're promising this uh this this
loads of money to Ukraine yeah do you
think despite the bias media the public
seese through this hypocrisy absolutely
I mean I think we saw that in essence
when it came to Syria when the British
government and the American government
were joined together what what would
effec would have been in a military
alliance with Al-Qaeda and because of
British public opinion which fed us
public opinion they're sick of the wars
they're sick of the lies they're sick of
the double dealing they've seen through
it so cynicism is a Victor here there's
a real cynicism in our political process
because the disconnect between our
politicians and our leaders is never
been so great as with public opinion as
it is now they don't want to be
interfering in other Count's Affairs
they don't want to be supporting
neo-nazis and fascists they they
understand that we need international
law and we need parity of esteem for all
governments well let me give you one
that just occurred to me and I haven't
heard before in Greece two weeks ago all
rallies and demonstration were banned in
the capital city of Athens because
Angela mercel was coming to dictate the
terms of a of still more austerity for
the people of Greece the EU meanwhile is
handing over billions of Euros to an
unelected Juna in Kev whilst the Greek
people are suffering and being banned
from having their own maidan they
couldn't have a demonstration in the
Central Square in Athens because the
police would have shot them down if
they'd turned out in fact many of them
tried to and Flames were the result yes
this whole package is filled with such
contradiction and hypocrisy and double
standards what's going to happen the
people in eastern Ukraine are occupying
public buildings which are their public
buildings they don't belong to the
unelected Juna in Kev Kev is threatening
to kill them in an anti-terrorist
operation uh Russia doesn't want to have
to come to their defense but surely will
if push comes to shove well the Russian
government is not only is morally
obligated to come to the defense it
would have to because its own security
interests are now at stake and are now
being risked so I see going forward the
only possibility is some sort of
federation within Ukraine in which
there's Regional autonomy for different
parts of the country because most of the
industries in the East the miners in
eastern Ukraine have come out in support
of the anti-government protesters in
eastern Ukraine who are occupying these
buildings which are as you say morally
belong to them um so I see going forward
a political solution which involves a
Federated state in Ukraine I think it's
the only way that's going to avert civil
conflict but I really don't think that
the people of eastern Ukraine are now
going to go back and accept this interim
regime which is nothing more than a rag
tag bunch of fascist and Ultra
nationalists who are trying who have
been elevated to a position of
legitimacy by our own governments in the
west and that's the real crime in this
affair these public
buildings belong to the Ukrainian state
which no longer exists yes because its
president its presidency its Parliament
were all overthrown in a western funded
violent KET so if they belong to anybody
they belong to the people in donet and
elsewhere uh who are now occupying them
these are Russian speaking people the
First Act of the Juna was to abolish the
Russian language yes as an official
language uh of the state yes but I'm
interested in this contradiction that
you touched on earlier they've affected
the people in Western Ukraine have been
marched up the hill by John McCain and
the EU and the rest but no nobody's
going to pay their bills nobody's going
to keep their heating on no nobody in
the west is going to put potatoes on
their plate yes so they've actually been
fooled just like uh the Western public
opinioned uh has been partially fooled
yes well what people don't know because
again the British media um the Russian
government was subsidizing gas supply to
Ukraine they were bringing keeping the
price artificially low in order to help
the Ukrainian people and the economy
which was in the meire now when they're
saying now we're going to put up prices
up to their Market rates they're being
denounced as using gas as a weapon of
Terror and so on and so forth so is the
foreign minister of the Russian
Federation said Sergey lavro the only
Statesman in my opinion in the world
today worthy of that name they have Cy
is off the scale when it comes to the
role of the western governments and the
rhetoric we're hearing from London and
Washington and from Brussels it's quite
staggering to behold and it's amazing to
me that they think they can get away
with this and that nobody will notice
what they're doing they're fermenting
protests in Venezuela anti-government
protests in Venezuela are are being
regaled as Freedom Fighters and so on
and yet when they do that in eastern
Ukraine against a violent coup which
deposed a Democratic elected government
we can't get away from that this is not
ready this is not propaganda this just
happens to be a fact they're denounced
as terrorists this is cognitive
dissonance r large now uh changing shape
yes you're I said at the in the
introduction you were a fighting man uh
yourself boxing has a very bad name
amongst if you like liberal uh circles
you and I believe that boxing is one of
the most character building yes
discipline inducing yes Pas times that
young men women if they insist young men
can possibly have we need a bit more
boxing in societies like ours don't we
well if you go into any low-income
Community from London to Manila to Los
Angeles you'll find boxing gyms probably
play as effective a role as a church
down the street in Saving Souls it
really is a sport wherein the human
spirit is elevated and en nobl and the
intimacy that takes place between two
boxers after they've been in a fight a
few hard rounds is something that no one
who hasn't experienced it could
understand it really that you see a
conjoining of the human Spirit at that
moment and boxing is not about street
fighting it's not about thuggery and
indeed it's a very opposite of that it's
about self discipline it's about mutual
respect and it's about self-control
Angela amel's got a fighter his name is
Klitschko he's boxing out of the German
uh Corner uh in the Ukraine how's he
doing is his star uh on the wi in the
pantheon of heavyweight champions who
were in the political Arena I must say I
much preferred Muhammad Ali's politics
to Vladimir klitos John White Russia
Today analyst thank you very much for
joining
[Music]
us now it's your turn to tell us what
you think through the portals of social
media what's rattling gy well I ask the
people about Ukraine and Steve Connor
says that I have a rule of thumb guide
concerning Ukraine whatever will William
H says believe the opposite and then
aune brainwash says that the West needs
to paint Russia as the Badd to justify
their own agenda to the Middle East
Russell Bland then says if Obama keeps
poking that bear with a stick it's going
to bite him on the I think they're
making a very big mistake provoking
Russia in the way that they are they
tried it with the Georgia War Russia
called their Bluff and is going to call
the bluff over Ukraine too yeah again uh
Aaron make pece says about Syria that a
transition to a new government cannot
happen safely whilst foreign Rebels
still besiege the country and Tom frier
adds that whatever happens in Syria
depends on Saudi Iran relations that it
could be a long War of Attrition but at
least bandar is gone well you say bandar
is gone he's been the uh man in charge
of the Syria file for years then he went
off on some kind of sabatical then he
came back
and now he's been sacked again which all
indicates that Saudi policy is in a
state of chaos they have fallen out with
Qatar uh and with turkey so it's not
just on the battlefield that the Syrian
rebels are uh massacring each other yeah
uh but their backers are all
backstabbing each other and inside their
backers that's all that we've got for
this week which unfortunately means
that's the end of the show stay in touch
with us though on Twitter at rtor
Sputnik and on Facebook you can like us
on Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye
from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous
[Music]